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luckydriver
level 2
493 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2010 : 09:38:18
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2 weeks ago my garage tossed on new pads on the front. I knew there would be some change in my braking but now it feels like when i first press down there's 'play' until the brakes actually start to kick in then they really 'grab'. I guess u could call it sponginess too. I dont know how to describe it. I guess it's possible it's just me getting used to the new brakes though? hard to diagnose without a test drive. Anyone here psychic?
i still have my ever present warped rotor issue (i doubt this has anything to do with it) with bobut they told me just deal with it since it's expensive for them to replace them and i guess they are trying to save me $. |
95 DCM 178K stock except for Borla......87 caprice became my snow car in 2000 and it was laid to "rust" in 10/07 with 338K. Rebuilt trans at 308,000 (lasted pretty long I think); new radiator 330,000 (they said it literally disintegrated when they took it off) |
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smokey0810
level 5
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 10:38:28
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Did you check your fluid level? Sometime fluid bubbles out when pushing the piston back...
And what place told you to 'deal with it' on warped rotors? I would go back and raise hell.
There's an outfit on ebay selling front rotors & pads (with hubs) for $58.99. They're Kelsey Haynes rotors, and the pads are a good brand (forget the name). That's a crock. Warped rotors are unsafe for braking. |
1995 9c1 Caprice |
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Bloodvane
level 5
Somalia Southern Region
3476 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 11:08:55
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Agreed. You need to bleed thesystem again, insure all air is out and only fresh fluid remains.
Read and perform article III, sections A, B & C, all steps: http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=227362
Note that if you submerse the clear vinyl tubing in old brake fluid, you can perform this operation as described even if you don't have speedbleeders, BUT the one end has to be secured to the bleeder nipple and the other end has to be completely submerged.
The guy who you spoke w/ either is being too lazy to swap out the rotor (which is actually quite easy) or has his priorities for you completely reversed. They are NOT that expensive and leaving you w/ a warped rotor is not only unsafe, it borders on ludicrous. No minor "cost savings" issues should drive that decision. |
Edited by - Bloodvane on 07/15/2010 11:11:48 |
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SSandman
level 5
5357 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 11:38:07
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| So the brakes were just pad slapped, no new rotors? Sounds like it could be a rust ridge causing your problem. New pad gets hung up on the ridge of rust on the rotor and causes it to feel like it isn't engaging right away. |
96 BBB--Bad luck 4 years and counting
Video back with the all motor setup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZvPZi9fL8k
94 BBB--the daily driver
Borla shorty headers, 2 1/4" catback, Dynomax Ultraflow muffs, RAISS, PCM by PCMforless.com, cat delete, EGR delete, AIR delete, Hotchkis springs/Bilstein shocks, PPM front end/poly bushings, Global West rear LCA's
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luckydriver
level 2
493 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 11:50:23
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well i give the guy a lot of money to fix things (over 900 last year for the opti oil leak thing and all the seals etc), plus other little dings here and there for 'minor things'...... and he knows i will spend money to fix things that keep the car running so it's not like i'm cheap but when i said i dont like the rotors pulsing (i have the bobblehead thing going when i stop) he said they were expensive and he didnt think cutting them made sense and just wait until i need them. i did authorize brakes and rotors replaced when i dropped off the car and told him 'fix that horrible screaching sound' but i guess he thought they didnt need it so he didnt give them to me
for perspective his brake labor was 90 and the brakes themselves were 125 i think. At that rate it seems like he'd be charging probably 150 or more per rotor. Just a guess on my part. I never learned how to do brakes so dont trust myself to do them.
In his defense i can recall at least 3 separate times i've walked out of there with a zero bill, he's aligned the car, balanced the tires, removed the drive shaft, and did a bunch of other things for me free. if i go in with a complain and he cant find stuff wrong, he doesnt charge me any fees at all. more recently he told me that the other vibration issue i have is just a 'bad' tire and i do bleieve thats true because when he swapped them , the issue went away significantly.
so i continue to pay his higher prices because of thinigs like that plus he is only 3 blocks from my house :)
I'll check the fluid level and i guess just hope it's the rust ridge as discussed above.
do you have to take off the rotors to replace the brakes? if so then yea, i really should hvae just pushed to have them put on no matter the cost, maybe he's trying to get double labor out of me? he really is a nice guy and i dont get any sort of hints for rip off artist. My old mechanic (shop got shut down) told me it was a good shop to go to so i do trust his opinions. |
95 DCM 178K stock except for Borla......87 caprice became my snow car in 2000 and it was laid to "rust" in 10/07 with 338K. Rebuilt trans at 308,000 (lasted pretty long I think); new radiator 330,000 (they said it literally disintegrated when they took it off) |
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96ssBBB
level 5
USA
5772 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 15:43:54
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quote:
Originally posted by luckydriver
do you have to take off the rotors to replace the brakes?
Brake Pads, No you do not need to remove the rotors.
If you lived closer I'd show you how to do much of this stuff yourself, and save you a ton in the future. |
RIP -SStropper
RIP - Wayne Beaman http://www.vimeo.com/6728716
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Edited by - 96ssBBB on 07/15/2010 15:45:04 |
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smokey0810
level 5
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2010 : 00:36:06
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| You should have at least pulled the rotors off and had them turned at the parts store...Most of em do it. That can be the pulsing feeling. The rotors will look fine to you, but turning them will give the pads a fresh surface to grab on to. Seals & bearings ain't that expensive either. Can do it all within a couple hours. You already know how to do the pads, which is half the job.... |
1995 9c1 Caprice |
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luckydriver
level 2
493 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2010 : 08:01:10
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no i dont know how to do any brake work, i guess i should learn. And of course that means buying more tools as i only have a general socket set. my old mechanic moved kinda far from me but maybe i should hire him for a day to teach me stuff :) how much $ do you think buying all new tools to replace brakes and rotors would set me back?
but for now i'm stuck with the current guy, who's of the belief that it wasnt worth turning the rotors and i should just wait until i need new. but then since he charged 89 labor for brakes it's obvious rotors will be at least that since the brakes have to come off. I dont mind labor charges so much but what kills me is the full retail price i have to pay for parts that he charges. unless these $125 pads last 100K or something lol. |
95 DCM 178K stock except for Borla......87 caprice became my snow car in 2000 and it was laid to "rust" in 10/07 with 338K. Rebuilt trans at 308,000 (lasted pretty long I think); new radiator 330,000 (they said it literally disintegrated when they took it off) |
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smokey0810
level 5
USA
2368 Posts |
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smokey0810
level 5
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2010 : 14:36:11
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No real special tools needed. Socket set, caliper socket, and some pliers & wrenches & screwdrivers. Nothing spectacular necessary, and a pretty easy swap. Just check your specs on tightening the outside nut on the hub. Found that one out from GoldSSWagon. The little things you learn from those with lots of knowledge.
Seals can be tapped in using a rubber mallet or hammer with slight tapping. Just make sure they sit right. Bearings just require you getting a little dirty/greasy. Pick up a Haynes manual at your parts store, or find a set of FSM's on the web/forums. As the saying goes, knowledge is power.
I am truly amazed with what I can accomplish on these cars with no mechanical training at all.
Do you do your oil changes yourself? |
1995 9c1 Caprice |
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luckydriver
level 2
493 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2010 : 14:54:52
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| actually i have FSM which enabled me to do the heater hoses and water pump and i do the little things like oil and fuel filters. I guess i fear brakes because they are life threatening where other things arent. |
95 DCM 178K stock except for Borla......87 caprice became my snow car in 2000 and it was laid to "rust" in 10/07 with 338K. Rebuilt trans at 308,000 (lasted pretty long I think); new radiator 330,000 (they said it literally disintegrated when they took it off) |
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smokey0810
level 5
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2010 : 16:28:24
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| I used to have the same fear. It's easy though. Real easy, especially if you did your pads... |
1995 9c1 Caprice |
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SSandman
level 5
5357 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2010 : 12:39:01
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quote:
Originally posted by luckydriver
actually i have FSM which enabled me to do the heater hoses and water pump and i do the little things like oil and fuel filters. I guess i fear brakes because they are life threatening where other things arent.
This is what a lot of people think, but the truth is, disk brakes are one of the hardest things to mess up for a new-to-mechanic-work person especially on these cars. As long as you buy good parts (some real cheap pads may have fitment issues) it is real cake. Replacing the front rotors can be a little more tricky with the wheel bearings involved, but still nothing difficult.
As a mechanic, I can tell you that most mechanics love brake jobs because they go so quickly/easily and you get paid for a lot more labor time than what it actually takes to do them. Scary thing is, most people figure a mechanic is better off with doing their brakes because of safety, but most mechanics are so careless they skip over a lot of things that SHOULD be checked/done like cleaning/greasing caliper pins ect... And also many mechanics sloppy work leads to oil/grease getting onto the brake pads which is not good. It seeps into the pad and can screw up breaking them in correctly. So note to anyone reading this; never touch the face of the pad with greasy hands and if you get bearing grease on the rotors, clean the crap out of them with brake cleaner...don't do the 'it'll burn off' method! lol |
96 BBB--Bad luck 4 years and counting
Video back with the all motor setup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZvPZi9fL8k
94 BBB--the daily driver
Borla shorty headers, 2 1/4" catback, Dynomax Ultraflow muffs, RAISS, PCM by PCMforless.com, cat delete, EGR delete, AIR delete, Hotchkis springs/Bilstein shocks, PPM front end/poly bushings, Global West rear LCA's
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Edited by - SSandman on 07/18/2010 12:43:47 |
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Bloodvane
level 5
Somalia Southern Region
3476 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2010 : 13:45:51
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| Agreed on all above. The reason 1st-timers, intermediates and professionals alike are able to have such success w/ brake work are the inherent failsafes engineered into the overall design. It really is pretty hard to screw up and even if it does happen, there's generally a backup feature to prevent total 4 wheel brake failure. There aren't too many instances shy of leaving all 4 bleeder screws open where you can even have complete brake failure. Sure it can happen which is why you should always take it for what it is...a system of components on your vehicle designed to keep you and others safe and alive and to only perform work w/ commensurate knowledgebase, care and adherence to safety protocals...but there's a method to the madness is all I'm sezing. |
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96ssBBB
level 5
USA
5772 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2010 : 02:09:59
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quote:
Originally posted by luckydriver
no i dont know how to do any brake work, i guess i should learn. And of course that means buying more tools as i only have a general socket set.
Lucky, I recently went on a road trip to the mountains and didn’t like the feel of the pads that are on the car. So I bought a new set today and decided to take a few pics, to help you out. Keep in mind this is only a guide to give you the basics on changing disc brake pads, not a manual. It's pretty simple and I'll try to break it down for you.
These were taken on my beater Roadmaster, same setup on the Caprice and Impala.
Starting with the front wheel off and exposed caliper.
Locate the caliper pins,
Use a 3/8 alen head wrench to remove the pins from the back/inside. I used a rubber hammer to “tap” them loose. (Lefty loosey, righty tighty Drivers side tap down passenger up to loosen)
Once you have the pins out, wiggle and lift the caliper out of the bracket. ((Yes I know there’s oil on the floor, I also did an oil change and hadn’t cleaned up yet ))
Flip the caliper over and lift the pads out, make note of the orientation of the clip here.
I have no idea what brand these were. (Installed by previous owners shop of choice) But cracks in the pad lining can't a good thing
Now on to the piston.
The piston needs to be pushed back in to allow more clearance for the new pads. I have a specific tool for this, but damed if I could find it today So I went old school it’s cheap and effective. Just a piece of metal and a C-clamp.
Piston flush with the caliper.
New Pads
Spray the backside of the pads with brake quiet. Remember the clip discussed earlier, remove it and install it on the new pad.
Ready for installation
Load the new pads into the caliper. Keep in mind there is a hose attached to the caliper, when you flip the caliper back over do it in a manner that doesn't kink the hose. (Reverse of how you removed it)
You’ll want to keep the pins from corroding, and aid in the reinstallation and re-removal at a later date. Give them a little attention. Wire brush or sand paper them a bit then add some grease or in this case copper anti seize since it was setting nearby.
I didn’t have time to remove the rotors and have them turned, so I scored both sides with a flapper wheel. Course sand paper will work just fine.
Since the car is up in the air and wheels are off, It’s also a great time to grease the front end fittings. And do a bit of general cleaning and inspection
Your shopping list,
As you can see you really don’t need a lot in the way of tools. Just a few basic items and you can save yourself quite a bit of money. Total cost of this brake job was about 25$ (pads). Ideally I would have used Performance Friction pads. But these were in stock and have a lifetime guarantee. So this is the only set I ever have to buy. |
RIP -SStropper
RIP - Wayne Beaman http://www.vimeo.com/6728716
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Edited by - 96ssBBB on 07/25/2010 04:54:55 |
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luckydriver
level 2
493 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 20:01:37
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thanks for the detailed info and the pics are great. I took the front rotors to the shop to be turned. The one was 1.020 and one was 1.013 and the one had a lot of lateral??? something. Then took them down to about .987 and i forget the other one. of course per the FSM thats it for them being cut but hopefully this will last me a good long while. obviously there was something wrong here and i guess my shop is full of lazy guys that didnt want to repack the bearings and get their hands dirt.
i also correctly torqued the pins to 38 and the wheels to 100, got to break out my new torque wrench finally :)
so are the backs about the same procedure? |
95 DCM 178K stock except for Borla......87 caprice became my snow car in 2000 and it was laid to "rust" in 10/07 with 338K. Rebuilt trans at 308,000 (lasted pretty long I think); new radiator 330,000 (they said it literally disintegrated when they took it off) |
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96ssBBB
level 5
USA
5772 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 20:44:59
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quote:
Originally posted by luckydriver
so are the backs about the same procedure?
Nearly Identical, using the pics above as a guide, you'll be just fine.
quote:
Originally posted by luckydriver
i also correctly torqued the pins to 38 and the wheels to 100, got to break out my new torque wrench finally :)
Good call, most shops don’t even check the torque specs. Like allot of people they just snug them up and call it a day. |
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new pads, weird braking
